A question about Finnish motherhood and mothers

["Charlotte"]

Hello all,

I'm an American mom with a 3yr old toddler and a newborn. My husband works for a large international co. and I'm a stay at home mom. We recently moved to Finland and intend to stay here at least 2yrs.

My question is: why is it that I get a lot of attention for not only staying at home but for the help I get around the house? We have a nanny and a cleaning lady who visits once a week for thorough cleaning and once for laundry and ironing. It seems as me being at home and having help around the house is a negative thing? I'm not going to go into detail about the feedback I've received but let's just say it ain't all just positive.

Do people in this country assume you're a bad mom if you accept help around the house or w/ children?

 

[Mep]

Yes they do, sorry for that...
In Finland people envy people like you, because you can afford to get help.
Do it yourself is national theme. Otherwise you are lazy of too rich.

 

[***]

If you get help (if you have nanny etc.) you are a rich bitch

 

[minmin]

The myth about super mum is still very strong in Finland. You are a good mother only if you do EVERYTHING yourself and suffer from not getting enough sleep. If you say you're tired, you are a bad mom. For some even leaving the kids for couple of hours with their dad is terrible. And of course, the labor has to be at least 24 hours and difficult. Then you are a REAL mother. Not everyone thinks that way, but surprisingly many do. This is weird because Finland is the country where most mums work!

Take all the help you can get!

 

["Riittu"]

They are just jealous, because they don't have money enough to get nanny or cleaning lady.. That's luxury for us...

 

["fin"]

"minmin" said it: a mother of a Finnish origin must do everything by herself or she isn't considered as a proper woman. Even many Finnish men think this way; "why can't you do EVERYTHING if you just hang around the house?"

 

["mom"]

People are just jealous to you and complain for that reason If those complainers could themselves afford hiring a nanny and a cleaners, they would do that. Finnish people are as well far more straight (and unpolite) in social intercourse than americans. There might be some cultural differences, those make the feedback soud worse than it actually is.

 

["vieras"]

Yes, if you are a stay-at-home mother, people assume that you do EVERYTHING by yourself. If you do not get any help, people respect you because you are strong to survive by yourself.

 

[***]

I wouldn't say the main reason for this is jealousy. I know many women (including myself) who could very well afford to get help for cleaning etc. but still won't do it. I and my husband both work but we have enough time to take care of cleaning after work and during the weekends. Of course it might be different if my husband didn't take care of his share, but most Finnish men do.

 

[yep!]

In Finland it's very rare for a stay at home mom to have help around the house. Rich working mothers sometimes have someone to clean the house or watch the kids after school, but for a stay at home mom it's basically unheard of! I think they would understand a cleaning lady, that's something many would consider themselves if they had the money but when they find out you have a nanny, they will definitely be surprised and not in a good way. In our culture everyone takes care of their own children if they're not working. That's just how it is, they will think you shouldn't have children if you're too lazy to take care of them. (I'm not saying you are, but that's how many will think).

 

[Ninska]

Yeah, like everyone else here has already said; the reason for that behaviour is jealousity.

"If i cant have everything nice myself, anyone else should not have it either".
I am truly sorry that you have to hear mean comments from jealous home-moms.

 

[***]

Yeah, like everyone else here has already said; the reason for that behaviour is jealousity.

"If i cant have everything nice myself, anyone else should not have it either".
I am truly sorry that you have to hear mean comments from jealous home-moms.

Eveyone except me Anyway, I guess the nanny is really the biggest issue here as someone already mentioned. Even I have to wonder why you wouldn't take care of your own children if you're not working? What are you doing all day long?

 

[ninska]

Eveyone except me Anyway, I guess the nanny is really the biggest issue here as someone already mentioned. Even I have to wonder why you wouldn't take care of your own children if you're not working? What are you doing all day long?

Well i really think that is one of the culture difference between US and Finland.

I am finnish home-mom myself and i take care of everything as well and i dont complain about it.
Still i think that everyone can do these thing as they please and no one should be complaining about how somebody else handles these situations..

I would gladly hire a cleaning lady if i would afford it!

 

[yes]

If you have a child you should take the responsibility and take care of the child by yourself. The culture is this in Finland

 

[Ninska]

But well nanny-thing..
I think its okay to hire nanny if you go to dinner with ur hubby or something else.
But everyday seems little funny to me also..

 

[yep!]

I wouldn't say it's only a matter of jealousy. Like someone in this topic already said, there are many who COULD afford help around the house but they don't do it because that's not how our culture works. I would like to ask Charlotte what she does during daytime, is the nanny with the older child while you're with the baby? What do you do when the baby sleeps? Do you go shopping a lot or do all sorts of grown up activities without your kids? Also, in Finland there's a never ending debate about putting the older child into kindergarten when a new baby arrives. A lot of people do it and I don't see how having a nanny in the house is any worse, on the contrary. But I think it depends very much on you lifestyle, whether you are categorized as a good or a bad mom...

 

["Charlotte"]

Eveyone except me Anyway, I guess the nanny is really the biggest issue here as someone already mentioned. Even I have to wonder why you wouldn't take care of your own children if you're not working? What are you doing all day long?

Hi there! Well, my daily routines would be something like this:

- I get up around 9. (or earlier if the babies wake up)
- I'll fix some breakfast for the two of us and feed the baby
- around noon my nanny arrives
- she'll make the beds and usually takes my son out to play
- I'll run or go swimming / work out at the local gym
- I'll go shopping for some groceries
- spend time w/ the children
- take a nap w/ them
- my husband comes home from work
- we'll do stuff as a family
- we'll have a dinner together

And so forth..

Sometimes I meet up my husband's colleagues wifes, we'll get lunch or coffee together, or I'll go shopping etc. Oh and I study Finnish once a week

 

["Laura"]

Also many men expect women to do everything at home themselves even if the family could afford cleaning lady or nanny. They think it's waste of money to hire someone because they assume wife has a lot of time to take care of kids and house and if she's not able to handle it, she's just too lazy. Many women don't have any leisure time at all because they have to take care of kids 24/7 and they need to make all household work (also many men think they don't have to help because they go to work and need to rest when they come home).

I know many women would love to have someone helping around but there are those too, who still think that we must earn respect by not taking any helpo from others.

 

[-]

I think that most Finns must be a bit bewildered about your situation. If you don't go to work, don't clean/do the laundry and ironing, or even don't take care of your small children yourself - what on earth would you do then? Many won't know how to behave around you, what to talk with you. Finnish moms/dads either go to work or are at home taking care of their children.

Having said all this, I must add that it's very unfortunate that people would get mean about it. But maybe they are just amazed and don't know how to behave... no excuse, but still. I can't actually think why anyone would envy such an empty life, I don't think it's about jealosy. Aren't you a bit bored, why not go to work then, for some social life?

My husband is actually rich, but I'd rather go to work and "have a life" of my own and a career; we also take care of the ordinary household things (cleaning, laundry, ironing) ourselves. It isn't hard. But this is the Finnish way, it is a bit difficult to explain it.

 

["Charlotte"]

Well i really think that is one of the culture difference between US and Finland.

I am finnish home-mom myself and i take care of everything as well and i dont complain about it.
Still i think that everyone can do these thing as they please and no one should be complaining about how somebody else handles these situations..

I would gladly hire a cleaning lady if i would afford it!

Well, my cleaning lady charges 24e per hour and she is very thorough and energetic - so it'll usually take approx. 5hrs per week for her to do everything (inc. ironin). I don't think it's an awful lot of money considering you'll get the tax break ion this country.

 

[-]

I can't actually think why anyone would envy such an empty life, I don't think it's about jealosy. Aren't you a bit bored, why not go to work then, for some social life?

My husband is actually rich, but I'd rather go to work and "have a life" of my own and a career; we also take care of the ordinary household things (cleaning, laundry, ironing) ourselves. It isn't hard. But this is the Finnish way, it is a bit difficult to explain it.

I just read what I wrote - I'm sorry, I have formulated this relly badly without thinking. I honestly didn't mean to be any mean about this! Sorry (but just proved my point!).

If you are happy with your life, don't care about what some others think. People are just used to so different lifestyles.

 

["Charlotte"]

If you have a child you should take the responsibility and take care of the child by yourself. The culture is this in Finland

But I am. Why is it a bad thing for me to be able to relax and run arrons? This I don't understand. My children won't miss out on anything they are in a hands of a very capable nanny whom they like. I spend a lot of time w/ them every single day - just not all day every day.

 

[yep!]

Okay, so you have an easy life I think the "problem" is that you have too much time for yourself (alone) every day. The assumption is that if you have two small children, you are not supposed to run/swim/shop etc. alone every day. How old it the baby? In our culture it's not commonly accepted that you often leave a small baby with someone other than a parent for even a short period of time. You should take the kids with you when you go shopping, and your leisure activities should be something that can include your kids. That's the way it is and I'm afraid the "ordinary" moms in this country will have a hard time accepting you style of life.

 

[-]

[QUOTE="Charlotte";23844324]Well, my cleaning lady charges 24e per hour and she is very thorough and energetic - so it'll usually take approx. 5hrs per week for her to do everything (inc. ironin). I don't think it's an awful lot of money considering you'll get the tax break ion this country.[/QUOTE]

You've found a rather inexpensive cleaning lady! I don't think that is costly at all (actually must begin thinking the same for our family too...).

But most house-moms wouldn't afford that in a million years, even after the tax break it's about 200 euros a month.

 

[yep!]

And I didn't mean this in a bad way. If I had the money I would definitely consider hiring a nanny, but probably not every day, just sometimes (ok, I guess this shows how Finnish I am, even though I have lived both in the US and the UK...)